Pastor-teacher Don Hargrove
Faith Bible Church
Tuesday, May 4, 2010
DOCTRINE OF DEATH – Part 16
DIVINE PROHIBITION AGAINST NECROMANCY -
AND THE PENTECOSTAL/CHARISMATIC ROMANTIC NECROMANTIC CONNECTION
This doctrine will also be available in note & audio format @ http://fbcweb.org/doctrines.html
Preparation for Bible class – the three greatest issues
Salvation. Norman Geisler, one of our generation’s greatest philosophers and Christian theologians said it best …salvation is by faith alone through grace alone in Christ’s work alone….any denial of eternal security is an implicit denial of salvation by grace alone…if believers are not eternally secure and, thus, can lose everlasting life because of bad actions, then… [what you have is] a tacit form of salvation by works (Systematic Theology – Sin, Salvation, volume III. If you think you can lose your salvation then you really do not understand the grace of God and cannot enjoy security because in the end it is up to you instead of God’s grace. This issue in the Bible as far as salvation is faith in Jesus Christ,
John 3:16 "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
John 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
The Spiritual Life. This is an absolute. This is life in fellowship with God. At any given time a person is either in fellowship with God or he is walking in the darkness, 1 Jn 1:5-6.
1 John 1:5 And this is the message we have heard from Him and announce to you, that God is light, and in Him there is no darkness at all. 6 If we say that we have fellowship with Him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth; 7 but if we walk in the light as He Himself is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus His Son cleanses us from all sin.
Spiritual maturity. This is relative. All Christians are at different stages of maturity. The more spiritually mature you become the stronger you become, the more capacity you have for life, and the less you spend out of fellowship. The mature believer is able to stay in fellowship with God for longer periods of time because he has gained divine viewpoint through Bible doctrine. Consider the benefits of spiritual maturity: in spiritual maturity the believer’s mind is oriented to the Word of God in a systematic connected manner and thus he is able to think for himself, he is able to live within a biblical worldview, he is able to have great capacity for life, he is able to keep the right priorities in life, he is able to live in the reality of a profound view of God, he is able to stay away from immoral as well as moral (self-righteous crusader) degeneracy, he understands how to live and how to die, he enjoys spiritual self-esteem and security in the Plan of God, he is able to glorify God in unjust suffering, he lives in certainty and stability, he remains faithful over the long haul, he is able to operate from a position of strength instead of weakness, and because of virtue love and a relaxed mental attitude he is able to avoid many mental attitude sins like feeling sorry for self, jealousy, pettiness, and bitterness. The immature believer in fellowship with God can overcome mental attitude sins but because he does not have enough divine viewpoint he will find himself constantly getting out of fellowship and having to use 1 Jn 1:9 for recovery, whereas the mature believer has a grace attitude and is focused on the Lord and what He says in the Word so he isn’t as bothered by the hassles of life nearly as much as the immature believer. The immature believer is prone to be very superficial in his thinking whereas the mature believer is regularly thinking about the profound doctrines of the Bible and how they reveal God, the Plan of God, and the marvelous matchless grace of God. The mature believer really does believe he has it better than he deserves. He or she is a person of capacity filled with true and lasting gratitude.
Acts 20:32 "And now I commend you to God and to the word of His grace, which is able to build you up and to give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.
Eph 4:13-14, until we all attain to the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a mature man, to the measure of the stature which belongs to the fulness of Christ. 14 As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves, and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming;
Doctrine of Death: Divine Prohibition against Necromancy –
And the Pentecostal/Charismatic Romantic Necromantic Connection
In my last article on death, - Part 15 “AFTER DEATH: YOUR PERSONAL LOVE CONTINUES! I closed with,
If our [deceased] loved ones in heaven could talk to us, what would they say? (of course all communication with the dead is strictly forbidden in the Word of God!) They would urge us to be faithful! They would urge us to live in fellowship with God and grow in His Word! They would tell us to trust God completely! They would tell us “not to sweat the details of life!” They would tell us to trust God always! They would tell us that if we only knew how wonderful God is, we would do all we could to please Him! They would tell us to live on earth with heaven in mind! THEY WOULD TELL US THAT WE HAVE NO IDEA ABOUT THE GLORY OF GOD AND THE GLORY IN STORE FOR US,
This brings me to a discussion of necromancy (communication with the death). It just so happens that the concept of anointing in 1 Jn 2:20, 27 as we studied last Sunday also [strangely?] will fit into this discussion as you will see.
First and foremost: Necromancy is strictly forbidden in the Word of God. Attempting to talk with the dead is consistently condemned by God in no uncertain terms.
Leviticus 19:31 'Do not turn to mediums or spiritists; do not seek them out to be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God.
Leviticus 20:6 'As for the person who turns to mediums and to spiritists, to play the harlot after them, I will also set My face against that person and will cut him off from among his people.
Leviticus 20:27 'Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.'"
Deuteronomy 18:11 or one who casts a spell, or a medium, or a spiritist, or one who calls up the dead. 12 "For whoever does these things is detestable to the LORD; and because of these detestable things the LORD your God will drive them out before you. [Mediums, spiritists, necromancers are those who receive messages from the dead from visiting their graves touching dead bodies by either visions, signs or by any communication].
Isaiah 8:19 And when they say to you, "Consult the mediums and the spiritists who whisper and mutter," should not a people consult their God? Should they consult the dead on behalf of the living? [The answer is obvious God's people should never seek the dead for any information, much less a spiritual one].
In spite of the strong divine prohibition against attempting to contact the dead, many very famous Christians have actually “gloried” in this activity. Let’s take a look at three examples of believers who sought to communicate with the dead.
The first example was King Saul. Some Christians actually use the story of Samuel and Saul to justify communication with the dead. In this remarkable instance, Samuel was apparently brought back from the dead, but not by the witch of Endor. God Himself seems to have done this miracle; only such a surprising act can explain the medium’s terror in 1 Samuel 28:3-25. We must remember that the voice of Samuel did not speak through the lips of this medium. Samuel and Saul spoke to one another directly because of this surprising miracle. What is more, the Almighty was displeased with Saul’s desperate attempt to consult the dead prophet. No wonder Saul heard a prophecy of judgment that he and his sons would die the very next day – a prophecy that was fulfilled! Again, attempting to talk with the dead is consistently condemned by God.
The second example was the famous Bishop James A. Pike. In his book the Other Side, Bishop James A. Pike described in detail how he had made contact with his son, who had committed suicide. Using a spirit medium, the bishop had what he believed to be several extensive conversations with the boy. “I failed the test, I can’t face you, can’t face life,” Pike’s son reportedly said. “I’m confused…I am not in purgatory, but something like Hell, here,…yet nobody blames me here.” Jesus, the boy said, was an example but not a Savior. A surprise was the alleged appearance in spirit of a friend, Paul Tillich, a well-known German-American theologian who had died several months before. Pike was caught off guard when he discerned his deceased friend’s German accent passing through the lips of the medium (or channeler). What Pike, a liberal theologian, did not realize was that demons impersonate the dead to create the illusion that the living can communicate with them. These spirits have astonishing knowledge of the dead person’s life since they carefully observe individuals while they are living. Through the power of deception, they can mimic a deceased person’s voice, personality, and even appearance. The very term “familiar spirits” suggests familiarity of some demons have with individuals. No one has ever talked with their dead loved ones! There are, however, spirits that impersonate the dead. Their trickery is compounded because they may actually talk about love, the value of God, and make favorable references to Christ and the Bible. And of course they know enough about the one who had died to mimic them and deceive those without Bible doctrine. What a cruel demonic prank played on those who actually think they have spoken with the deceased loved one. And they are so sure it was them! they even heard “their” voice!
The third example is taken from the Charismatic movement (which really is a satanically inspired Christian cult/counterfeit movement). The most famous example of a necromancer is Benny Hinn. He is proud of the fact that he visits the graves of the late faith-healing heretics Aimee Mcphersen and Kathryn Kuhlman to get more powerful anointings and inspirations. Lest you think Benny Hinn does not have a major impact in Charismatic circles consider the fact his books sales in Christian bookstores have exceeded those of James Dobson and Charles Swindoll combined. In his runaway best seller, Good Morning, Holy Spirit” (350,000 copies 6 months after the first publishing back in 1990), he chronicles how Kuhlman supernaturally influenced him. Hinn’s wide influence in Charismatic circles can be seen in the fact that is accepted and praised on TBN (Trinity Broadcast Network, a “Christian” television station) and pals around with, has conferences with, and is embraced by the likes of other popular TV “evangelists” like Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, Rod Parsley, Kenneth Hagin, Creflo Dollar, Paul and Jan Crouch, and Joel Olsteen of Lakewood Church – et al.
Here is an overview of Hinn’s romantic relationship with necromancy along with some of the creepy chilling quotes. If you are interested in seeing some of this creepy demonic stuff from the kingdom of darkness just do a google search on “Benny Hinn U-Tube.”
Benny Hinn believes he receives his inspiration, power and philosophy of ministry from the two dead and famous [infamous] Pentecostal and charismatic preachers: Mcpherson and Kuhlman. Hinn relates his vision of deceased Kathryn Kuhlman, I saw myself walk into a room and there stood Kathryn Kuhlman. And I've not seen Kathryn in a dream or a vision [in] years. I knew she had died and it was on the news that same morning. … And there she was standing in this room… And she said, 'Follow me.' … And I followed her to a second room. In that second room stood the lord. When the lord, uh-when-when I saw the lord, Kathryn disappeared. She was just gone ... And now the lord looked at me and said, 'Follow me.' And I followed him to a third room."
The anointing and POWER he gets from the dead Kuhlman plays a major role at Benny Hinn's "miracle services." He uses it to "slay in the spirit" as Kuhlman did 30 years ago. She has been imitated by charismatic evangelist/healers ever since. But Hinn has a new flare. Yes, like Kuhlman, he touches people on the forehead or neck to make them fall over. But he also blows or throws the "anointing" and "slays" people from a distance. Winded catchers try to keep up with the toppling bodies. He rears back and with a pitching motion slays the entire choir with one toss. "That's power," yells Benny." "POWER!" ... Hinn takes off his custom tailored jacket and rubs it briskly on his body. He is rubbing the Power into the jacket. Then he starts swinging it wildly, like the biblical David swinging his sling. He decks his followers left and right. Bam! Bam! Bam! The stage vibrates with their landings. Then he throws it [the "anointed" jacket]. Another bam. As a catcher moves to pick up a woman, Hinn slays him ... then he slays the catcher who caught the catcher. When Benny Hinn moves, nobody is safe from the Power ... [H]e blows loudly into the microphone ... Hundreds fall backward ... a woman collapses in the aisle and begins to babble. And then, suddenly, Benny is gone. The power vanishes from the room, and the people stare in stunned silence. This aspect alone of Hinn's meetings is enough to condemn him. He capriciously throws the "Holy Spirit" around in most irreverent fashion, using the third Person of the Trinity as his servant to attract attention to himself Hinn acts as though the "anointing" is some metaphysical power at his disposal, to be rubbed off onto objects. It looks impressive, works largely by the power of suggestion, but has no purpose except to make people stand in awe of Hinn. "It's scary," says Bill James, a former church member. "The people are mesmerized. ...When he comes out, he's like God."
Aimee S. Mcpherson and Kathryn Kuhlman are his mentors. Even though they are dead, he frequents their graves. He boasts that he is one of the few that has the keys to their tombs and says, One of the strangest experiences I had a few years ago visiting Aimee’s tomb in California…. Friday I am going to visit Kathryn Kuhlman’s tomb. It’s close by Aimee’s...I felt a terrific anointing when I was there...I trembled when I visited Aimee’s tomb. I was shaking all over; Gods power came all over me. I believe the anointing has lingered over Aimee’s body. Someone asked me how is it you can feel the anointing around a tomb? I have no idea man, but I sure felt it. Your gonna feel the anointing...I’ve heard of people healed when they visited their tomb...What a crazy thing. Brother there’s things we’ll never understand.” He often tries to relate his activity at their graves with the miracle of Elisha’s bones (2 Kings 13:20-21).
This “anointing” from the dead Kathryn Kuhlman is not limited to Hinn. On TBN
(This is Your Day program, Aug. 24, 1999), Rod Parsley agrees with Hinn about the anointing as he discussed the new healing center of Hinn’s on his program he said.
“…Go where those anointings will be multiplied Parsley says, I’m seeing this now… Benny … Multiplied by one another, Smith Wigglesworth’s [another Christian cultist] anointing multiplied by Oral Roberts anointing multiplied by Kathryn Kuhlman’s anointing multiplied by Benny Hinn’s anointing and when the people come there, their faith will be at such a level that that spiritual genealogy which you are preserving will come to bear against their need. … this is going to be a miracle mountain. “
If you have the stomach for it consider the following freakish excerpts from Benny Hinn's Honolulu Miracle Crusade (Friday Night, February 28, 1997) on his visions of God, Christ, and Kathryn Kuhlman, as well as his biblical justification for his necromancy.
… I've smelled the presence of God. I did this morning right here. And others around me smelled the fragrance of frankincense, right on this platform. In Detroit, Michigan, so great was the presence of God, the entire building filled up with a mist and we began to breathe in and smell it, frankincense, presence of the Lord, Steve Brock you smelled it with me! And Ron [Haus] and others. I've seen the presence of God. People, I've not only have felt it, I've not only have smelled it, I've seen it with my own eyes. You say, "what are you talking about?" Moses saw a cloud, Israel saw the cloud descend. Peter and James and John saw a cloud on Mount Tabor. As Christ walked into that cloud, and the voice of God spoke and said, [Hinn speaks in deep, dramatic voice:] "This is my beloved Son. Hear Him," He said. On another occasion, when the Spirit of the Lord descended in the Jordan River, the - the - the - the Father spoke and said, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." Did - do you know the saints of the old and new covenants saw the presence of God? In the Book of Acts, tongues of fire were seen by the eyes of human beings… I've seen the presence of God in Kathryn Kuhlman's meetings many times. In our own meetings, many times, where literally I would see a mist over people. Often when you see me pray for sections, the - the reason I do, is I can actually see like a mist over the people's heads. And then I know to pray for them, and they all collapse under the power. You say, "How do you see it?" I don't know, I just see it. Elisha said to the Lord, "Open his eyes, Lord. Open the eves of my servant so he might see what was around the mountain." Elijah lived in that presence could see the angels while his servant, Gehazi, could not. But Elijah prayed that God would open his eyes. I pray that God would open your eyes tonight to see His presence. You've lived in your arena too long. It's time to walk into another arena [Crowd responds with "Amens" I where the supernatural power of God lives and exists. You've been so bound to the world, you can't look beyond the veil. I pray tonight God will open your eyes to look beyond the veil. Why don't you lift your hands and ask Him to open your eyes tonight? To take the blindness off To take the blindness off. Oh ask Him, but ask Him. [Hinn whispers: I Ask Him. He'll do it. He'll do it. He'll do it. You - you know the Holy Spirit is a very moving .... Put your hands down at your side and let me talk to you for just a minute. You know, the Spirit of the Lord is more than a power. It's more than a personality. He is God Almighty. If the ancient prophets should walk in here tonight, they would tell you that what you feel, they felt when they walked this earth. We take for granted times what we felt and known. The Lord is so real to me I don't know how else to say it. He's more real to me than my own children. Do you know something, that is difficult really to explain? I'm just gonna tell you. Whenever I talk to Him, I see Him. I can tell you what He - what He wears all the time. I can tell you what - what color He - He has on. I've seen that so many times. - I - I'm talking about regular. When I talk to the Lord, He comes, I say "What - what uh, uh." Often, most times, I see Him wearing a blue, beautiful, almost like a - like a silkish looking garment. And under it would be a white garment. Sometimes I'd see Him wear white and a - a scarlet garment. I've seen Him at times when just pure white altogether. You say, "Where do you see Him?" I don't know. I just see Him. And - and often when I see Him, I know whether He is pleased with me or displeased with me. There's been times when I see Him with a smile. Other times I've see Him with a very serious look. Other times I couldn't really tell. It was like almost a mist around His face, I couldn't tell. I don't understand why He allows me to see that, but I do. And He speaks to me so clearly. He tells me to say things and do things and pray even for things. You know, I ask Him questions that most people probably don't ask Him. Example, I said to Him, I said, "Lord, show me my future. I want you to show me my future." And just like this [snaps his fingers] I saw my future. Actually I had a vision. And I saw myself as an old man with white hair and I had a - had a - had a dark suit on with stripes and my girls, my Jessica and my Natasha were in their thirties, old thirties, and they had beautiful curly hair. They - they looked like Dino's wife. What's her name there? Dino's wife, Gary's sister, Sharon. I ask the Lord, I said, "Lord, how long will I live?" He told me, He said, "Sixty-nine. if you take care of yourself, seventy-three." So I want to buy a treadmill. [Crowd laughs.] I've asked Him these kind of things. I've asked Him things about people…. I've had individuals appear to me in my room. Not only angels. I've seen sights in prayer, incredible sights! I don't know if I can even tell you. I - I think some of you will think I lost my mind. Paul [Crouch], do you believe that I am a man of God? Do - do you, Ron [Haus)? Norvelle [Hayes], how long have you known me? Am I crazy? No! Do - do you people believe I know the Lord? [Crowd responds with, "Yes" and "Amens" enthusiasticly).] Can I tell you something? I have never shared this. Never! I was in prayer one day and a man appeared in front of me. It happened two - for two days in a row. Er - twice one day and the next day. The same man appeared. I've never told this, never. Ron, you've known me, you've never heard me tell this. I saw this man in my room. It - it frightened me at first. Now you've got to understand, when you enter into this world of prayer, it starts with the mind. Where you're so accustomed to things around you, then, you enter into a spiritual thickness and wealth where nothing bothers you, nothing frightens you. Angels don't surprise you anymore with their appearance because you been already tasting and been feeling and you been living in that atmosphere. Do you understand that? You're - you're - you are not shocked by anything. There appeared to me a man. This is recently, I'm not talking about a long time ago. He was about six feet two. Old man. Had a beard. White like Norvelle [Hayes] jacket. Glistening white beard. His face was somewhat thin, but very bold! Eyes - crystal blue. He had on a white garment, whiter than my shirt could ever get. On his head was a like a shawl - like a - like a like a covering. He looked like a priest. But every part of him glistened like crystal. And I spoke out and I said, "Lord, who is this man I see?" Now, I know you may think I've lost my mind, but the Lord said, "Elijah, the prophet." I'd never heard the Lord say that to me. You know, when that happened? That happened days before the anointing on my life doubled. Literally, the ministry's anointing doubled after that. I've never shared this, I've been scared. I thought people gonna think he has gone crazy! And it happened twice! Two nights, one and the next day. And right after that, the anointing on this ministry doubled. Now, I don't understand why the Lord allowed me to see that. I have not just seen angels, I've seen saints. Can I tell you? This may even shock you a little more. The Lord gave me a vision of Kathryn Kuhlman in heaven, sitting with what seemed to be a group of people. Now - now - now, if you think I'm crazy, it's all right, I don't really care. Seven and a half years ago, just before the ministry started, before these crusades began, I was in prayer when suddenly in front of me I saw a group of people. I couldn't even tell you who they were. I recognized only one of them. It was Miss Kuhlman. And every one of them seemed to be urging me to pray. Now, I know this sounds crazy, but it's all right. I don't mind if you call me crazy, because I liked what I saw. And this - this group was saying, now I couldn't hear them. I'd been in prayer at least, uh, hours. And suddenly, just just this flash came in front of me. I can not describe it to you except to tell you it was more real than you sitting right in front of me right here. It was not a mental thing, it was so alive, pastor. It's so alive, it was like a flash of lightening hit me and all I saw was these people's faces. I will tell you, when I get to heaven, I will recognize them. At least fifty to seventy of them were sitting in a group), and they were saying to me, "Pray! Ask God to give you a healing ministry that will touch the world!" And suddenly, I heard Kathryn's voice, [Hinn snaps fingers] and out of the blue, suddenly there - there she was, it's crystal clear. And she in her beautiful smile, the way she said, "Ask! We're waiting for you to ask! We're praying with you to ask "And the vision disappeared. And suddenly I said, "Lord!" and I asked. A week later the anointing hit my life. I believe the saints in heaven urge us to pray. Urge us to do it! Do you know why I believe it? 'Cause it's in the Bible! You say, "Show it to me." Jesus saw Moses and Elijah who came to talk to Him about His passion on the cross! Ladies and gentlemen, there's way more than you know about God! And the reason I'm telling you all this? The Lord said to me only a few days ago, He said, "You're - you're about to come into a new level. Get ready!" And I'm already feeling the rumblings in the heavenlies. Somebody is about to talk to me again. Something is about to happen again. I don't know what it is. But I - I'm so excited, I feel butterflies in my tummy. I feel something. I've had three prophets lately, absolute people that know the voice of God, that have said to me, "You're about to walk into a new inheritance in the Spirit." I don't know what it is, when it is, but it's coming. And tonight, the Lord is putting upon my heart to pray for you, that you should walk into a new inheritance in the Holy Ghost. Stand up, I want to pray for you. Come on. Hallelujah! ..."
It is apparent that Hinn depends on contact from the spiritual realm - which God expressly forbids to be trafficked in. To justify this by taking Jesus the Son of God’s encounter with the prophets on the mount of transfiguration is ludicrous. For it was Jesus along with the Father who had them appear to approve of his ministry and reveal who he was to his closest disciples.
Benny Hinn’s contact with demonism began at a very young age. At the age of eleven for instance Hinn claims to of had a visitation from Jesus himself before he was saved (details are in Good Morning Holy Spirit pg.221 ). When I was a little boy, I saw the Lord in this dream. It was really so real, it was really a vision because when - when He appeared to me my body became electric just like electricity went through me and when I awoke that electricity was still on my body."
Of course Benny Hinn has been rebuked by many Bible believers to which he responded, "Now I'm pointing my finger with the mighty power of God on me. ...You hear this. There are men and women in Southern California attacking me. I will tell you under the anointing now, you'll reap it in your children. You'll never win. ...And you children will suffer. You're attacking me on the radio every night; you'll pay, and your children will. Hear this from the lips of God's servant. You are in danger. Repent, or God Almighty will move his hand. ..." That is what Hinn told an audience on August 7 at Melodyland Christian Center in Southern California
Think of the deception among vast amount of Christians today who follow him and his popular cohorts. Many get sucked into the Charismatic demonism simply because they start out with being really zealous for the Lord – but with a zealousness void of doctrine – just like the unbelieving Jews (Rom 10:2). Many have good intentions and really want to serve the Lord. During the services many have their Bibles open as the Bible is quoted to support the syncretistic Christian-Satantic doctrines. The only hope for deliverance is Bible doctrine. Apart from Bible doctrine, believers are spiritual morons, perfect dupes for Satan himself. In their spiritual ignorance and superstition these people really believe that since the name of Jesus is invoked, and people are getting “healed,” and there is speaking in tongues, and they can see with their own eyes all of this power as people are slain in the Spirit, lying around and rolling around in ecstasy, that it must be from God. They even believe necromancy can be of God because Benny Hinn refers to biblical events. You see doctrine really does matter. If you do not have Bible doctrine then you do not have the whole systematic view of truth and if you do not have that then you are a sitting dupe ready to be brainwashed by the devil all in the name of Jesus and proof passages. Anyone can quote the Bible and talk about Jesus and the Holy Spirit with religious fervor and yet be very active servants of Satan . As a matter of fact, Christ warned us about MANY who would be involved in prophecy in the name of Jesus, casting out demons in the name of Jesus, and even performing miracles in the name of Jesus – however, Jesus Himself said He never knew them = they there were NEVER EVER saved – never! Think doctrine matters?
Matthew 7:22 "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' 23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'
2 Thessalonians 2:9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth [BIBLE DOCTRINE!] so as to be saved.
Yes Doctrine matters!